A continuation of an interview with Rasmus Ejlersen from Udånde, which was done via videocall in the summer. In this second – final part – B. and Rasmus delve even deeper to the topic of mental health and fight against depression and anxiety, where society fails and what could be done better, while exchanging their first-hand experiences. They talk, however, also about live performances, with which bands would Rasmus want to go on tour and why you should never meet your heroes.
So yeah, I’m really happy that I understood at least this reference.
Well done, well done.
But coming back to the topic of speaking about mental issues. It definitely should be a part of everyday life, speaking about these things, going to therapies. A lot of people are probably ashamed to even reach out and when it comes to… OK, psychology is probably more tolerated… It’s like, „OK, so you need to speak about something. That’s fine.“ But when you even try to mention psychiatry, it’s as if there was no middle ground here, either you are absolutely fine, or you are a lunatic ready to be closed in a psychic ward, who is absolutely incapable of living by himself.
Yeah.
But it’s actually not like that, right? There’s a lot of people around you who are medicated, that went to psychiatry for some reason, and you don’t even know about that. Most of people don’t even know that these sessions with psychiatrists are actually a lot similar to, or even the same as with just another doctor, right? Because you just sit there talking to a doctor about your symptoms and they will write something in their computer and give you some recommendation what you should do and they probably prescribe some medication to you, and this is really the same. And if people knew that it was actually like this and not like in the movies and whatnot I think that this taboo would be lifted out from it. And we definitely need to lift it because one of the problems with mental health is that people are bottling up and as society doesn’t really help or when it comes to popularization of these topics, it’s starting to be an epidemic. By the way I’ve got my suspicions that you were probably having troubles with this, considering your lyrics and your albums. So I knew. But you are actually the second person I’m talking to TODAY in whom I found out openly that he struggled with depression and anxiety and this was my friend. My really good friend, I know him for my whole life and he told me today like an hour before we started our interview that he takes anxiety medication for flights. He never had these troubles with flying, but he started to have anxiety attacks on planes. So really I think that there is a big… I don’t know how to call it, but the cases of these problems are starting to rise and we as a society need to change our perspective of it. For the benefit of all, probably.
Yeah, it depends on the degree of the sickness because again: it’s a sickness. It’s not something that you are found guilty of, you know, it’s a sickness and you go to a doctor to get cured as you mentioned. So depending on the degree, people should not be that afraid of it, I would say. Of course, if there’s some maniac with a knife running around in the center of Bratislava, then sure, you should keep your distance, but…
Yeah, there’s something in the middle, right?
Yeah, there has to be some middle ground, especially because I remembered some of my friends in Denmark, when I was first diagnosed with depression, I tried to go through a normal therapist instead of psychologist. We have a different system in Denmark. It’s much, much worse compared to yours in Slovakia.
OK.
Because here you have to go to a psychiatrist to get prescription pills. In Denmark you go to a regular doctor. I did that as well and within 10 minutes I had antidepressant pills, which I refused to take because the doctor doesn’t even know me. It’s the first time I’m here and you just gave me some pills that I’m gonna get addicted to. That’s not OK, but unfortunately, that’s how the system is.
Yeah.
But I remember some of my friends asking “how’s it going?” and me just being me, I’m just honest, so I was like „Oh, I got diagnosed with depression.“ And they kind of got it but on the other hand, they were not talking to me for the rest of that day. You know, it’s like they were afraid of it. It was maybe unknown to them, I don’t know. And it’s a really common thing also in Denmark as well. So I really think that people should try to get better and talk about it. Not mentioning a lot about my family, but I grew up in a household where mental issues were something that other people had, and definitely not our family and in the retrospective point of view, my whole family suffers from it. Not anxiety issues per say, but other cases of mental issues. So these things are also the reason why I had to make „Slow Death“ it really needed to be a kind of a punch into the everyday life society.
Yeah, I just had a remark about the fact that yes, this is one of the problems, people are probably bottling up, that’s one thing. But I also feel that a lot of people are saying that they actually have anxiety. And it’s used so much on social media, these words: anxiety and depression. As if it’s lost its meaning, you know and you can’t really tell the difference anymore. Is it really anxiety? Something that needs to be treated or is it just a bad mood or you’re just like „ohh I got stressed because I forgot about my deadline“. This is not the same thing. There is an abysmal difference between these things and the way it’s spoken about, it doesn’t really help the real cases. I don’t want to sound like this elitist, like „we are the true sick ones“. But you know what I’m talking about, right? It helps to create this profane view on anxiety, like „What is anxiety? Anxiety is nothing, everybody has anxiety.“
Yeah.
When everything is anxiety, then nothing is anxiety anymore.
I also think it’s based on social media, what I learned from articles is basically that because of TikTok and stuff like that, we live in a globalized world and the main language is English, a lot, especially of the Danish youth, are taking the words „I feel depressed“ into their wording. And that is an issue because no, you just feel down, you feel blue, you feel sad, but you don’t feel depressed per se.
Yes!
But they start thinking about it. It’s like „If I feel depressed, am I depressed as in mentally depressed?“
Yeah, yeah.
And that was some of the issues they‘ve been debating, it’s also used as an English slang: If you got a bad grade in school something like „ohh, it’s so depressing“ you know? Don’t use these extreme wordings, these extreme connotations. No reason for that.
(Source: Kreuzer Matthias Fotografie)
Exactly.
I remember this Danish author Josefine Klougart, she had a few sentences in one of her books: „Words are not innocent because words are actually weapons and shields“. And I was like: „exactly!“.
Yeah.
Because we are all getting manipulated by whatever connotation this word might have. I used to study Nordic literature and language for a short while, so I’m really into the meaning of words and all that. But that’s also an issue with social media, if someone plants the seed like this and it spreads and in order to correct that misinformation, it takes a lot of effort.
Yeah, absolutely agree. Just another, probably the last thing about the „Slow Death“ album, the full sentence. I’ve actually thought about it, this first song „I’m Not Pessimist, I’m a Realist“ I thought that this was a reference to not only you but it’s kind of a popular quote, from a lot of pessimists. I’ve actually heard this a lot of times and I’ve been using it as well. I mean, like, I’m not a pessimist because the reality is bleak. It is. We see it as bleak because it really is. Its like optimists are living in a bliss.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But back to the whole sentence. What is this sentence exactly? Did you just form the sentence and divided it into six songs? Or is it some specific sentence?
It is, as mentioned, depicting all the songs and it’s also the timeline and everything. To be honest, when I’m getting these questions like „How did you do this? How did you make this guitar riff and whatnot…“ I don’t remember because when I’m in this creative flow in my brain, it just happens. It’s hard to say exacty how it occurred.
Yeah. Yeah.
The first sentence „I’m Not a Pessimist, I’m a Realist“, that was a thing I said. I think it was back in 2008 and my friend was like „oh, you’re always so pessimistic“ and I’m like „No, I’m a realist“ because that sounds cool, I’m just trying to justify why I’m never smiling and whatnot. So it started from there.
(Source: Jill Decome Photography)
OK, so let’s move on to the live performances. For some time you didn’t do live shows, but now you have this full line up. So who are the guys and how did you get together?
Well. First… It’s a group called Czech and Slovak Black Metal on Facebook. I made a post looking for some sessions musicians, rehearsal space, all that stuff. And then Andrej Kapusta contacted me, a drummer and a guitarist that had a rehearsal space and wanted to play guitar. Then I used some contacts, pushed a little bit on people and then I got Kamil Adamík as well. And then I had two guitarists. As it was after „Slow Death“ was released I felt more confident in singing. And then we needed a drummer. So we eventually ended up with Roman Vrecník, also a drummer in Catastrofy. We had him for a few shows, he was only a session drummer, because he said that he’s already playing in Catastrofy, which is his main project and he doesn’t have much time. The first show we played was in Escape in Vienna. It went OK, if you ask me. It was like the first show, first ever to play in front of a live audience and then the second show we had was… to say it slowly and without cursing… Byt-ča.
*both laughing*
So we had our second show there, also with Roman on the drums and after that we kind of had to find a new solution. So we sat together and discussed what we could do so Andrej Kapusta, as already mentioned, played the guitar. I asked him: „Well, can you go for the drums instead?“ Because it’s more difficult to find a drummer than it is to find a guitar player.
Definitely.
And then we eventually ended up with Guitardrej – Andrej Bartek. So he also plays in Distax and Rana. Really nice guys. So, that’s the troupe at this point. We work as a normal band would work, the only thing is I do everything, like making the music, organizing rehearsals, paying for rehearsal room, because they’re playing my stuff. So I think that’s fair. All the administrative stuff, if we’re playing live, we are splitting, if there is a profit and so on. When it comes to merchandising, I’m the only investor, so I’m also getting the profit from there. But it really depends on the profit, like last year we made a profit on the tour, which I organized myself and in the end, I chose to give them my quarter to share. So I took the merch money which I was already entitled to, and then I didn’t take any pay for organizing the tour or playing my part, so they could be more happy about actually using their vacation days playing my stuff.
That’s really nice.
For me it’s good if you make some profit, but if you break even, that’s the main goal.
That’s a really nice thing you got going on. So when it comes to the creative process, would you be open to their ideas?
Yeah, I’m always happy to listen, but I’m also happy to be an asshole and ignore because in the end it’s my project and I need to be happy with it. I’m the one who has the final say when you have a new mixing, approving and and all that stuff. If they say they want to listen to some demos, I’m happy to share with them, I know I can trust them, but otherwise, if there’s something about playing live, we got some offers or something, I‘m always discussing it with them because they’re part of the live band. So when it concerns them, then they should really be involved as well and have a vote and a voice.
Yeah. Did anyone from them wanted to be a part of Udande? Like full time. Did they express such feelings?
We never discussed that, actually. But they know that there might be a slight chance that my girlfriend is gonna graduate this year from her university, and then we might move away from Slovakia.
Oh!
So they’re already aware that we might be moving in a year or two. I think that was one of the reasons why we‘ve never talked about them being members and being involved in the writing process and so on because I might not be here in the future.
(Source: Annamariya Gratzer Photography)
Yeah. And where would you move?
It depends on my girlfriend where she will get a job and so on. I don’t know. We have been speaking about moving to Norway or UK, but maybe also just the Czech Republic, something like that. We will see… My girlfriend, she speaks Norwegian as well. So that’s one of the reasons.
Wow, there’s not a lot of Slovak people speaking Norwegian.
Actually, a lot more than speaking Danish. I didn’t find anyone who spoke Danish, but all the time I find people speaking Norwegian.
Hah, that‘s really interesting. On another note, I saw Udande playing live on various occasions and…
Sorry to hear that.
*both laughing*
Is there a particular feeling you want the crowds to feel?
Yeah, what I’m aiming for is this kind of mesmerizing experience. For me, atmospheric black metal is really something where you stand in front of the stage, gaze into with closed eyes and just let your mind wander. For me it’s beautiful and healing music at some point, even though, of course, it‘s aggressive. But for me, I think, that screaming and growling is the most honest singing technique on Earth because it actually depicts real emotions. Compared to so much other stuff.
Yeah, definitely.
Something where you can totally be sucked into the whole music and the experience.
I was intrigued that you have this deer skull with incense sticks sticking out of it. What does this speak conceptually about or how does it work with the concept?
„Udånde“ means to exhale, but also to draw your last breath and die. It was just an idea I had. It came together at some point. Sadly, we will not use that anymore because our deer skull, Ulrik as we named him, didn’t make the last concert home from Žilina because when we got back he was cracked in two.
Oh. Ohh that’s so sad to hear.
But don’t worry, I cannot tell you yet, but it’s gonna be another awesome thing for the future, so just wait for the tour. It’s been handmade right now in the UK, so yeah. So I won’t tell you more than that, you will need to wait.
Wow, OK. OK. Looking forward to that. So I assume that those incense sticks are in hand with this mesmerizing atmosphere you’re trying to create.
Yes and also they play a different role, especially for me, for calming down. For me, incense sticks are part of a meditation. So the whole thing of having that on stage and inhaling it, it really makes me calm down. Last year in September, we were booked to play at the Copenhagen Metal Fest, so we drove all the way from Bratislava to Denmark, it was over 13 hours each way…
Ohh well fuck..
…but we were not allowed to use the incense sticks there because again, you have to follow the rules there in Denmark. So we were not allowed to use that and we already knew that. So we ended up having an oil air diffuser on the stage that we borrowed from one of the guitarist‘s girlfriend to have a bit of scent going off during the show…
*laughing*
… because it was feeling weird if we didn’t have anything, so we ended up doing that and it kind of worked. But it’s fun with these incense sticks. Last time when we played, I think it was in Erfurt, there was this German couple there. First of all, they drove 2 hours just to come see us, which was really nice. And second of all, after the concert, she texted me on Instagram and asked me what kind of incense sticks we‘re using, so she can buy them!
Haha, that‘s nice.
And funny thing, I was using some different incense sticks in the beginning and then I couldn’t find those anymore. And then before our first show last year, that was in Vienna, also Escape, we went there to check in with all our gear and all our stuff and then after we did that, my guitarist Kamil called me after they parked the van around the corner. He said, „hey, come here!“ and I was like „what, what?“, „there is a shop that sells incense sticks“ and then there was this old Indian gentleman in there, only speaking German. So fortunately Kamil, he speaks really good German, mine is not that good. But they had two different colors and I was like „which one is the best?“ and the shopkeeper said „all of them are the best! Which one do you like? They’re the best you can get!“ And yeah, we ended with one color because the other one was smelling a bit like the one I already had. But he was right. The one we bought was the best we ever had. And now I’m running low on them. So now I have to go back to Vienna and buy some.
(Source Rolf Raw Photography)
*both laughing*
Yeah, so good that you need to go to Vienna. But from Bratislava it’s not that much.
It’s not that bad.
For me, I was at a few of your shows and those incense sticks actually got so associated with Udånde playing live for me, that since then, when I use incense sticks sometimes, it always takes me back to your shows. I smell an incense stick and am like „Hey, Udånde is playing!“
Yeah, it’s real fun, because the ambient track I made, we use that as an intro for each show, it’s basically for me to get in the mood and really calm down, but every time our guitarist Kamil hears the intro from that ambient track, he’s like „oh, we gotta go on stage“.
*both laughing*
OK, so when we are talking about shows, what shows do you have planned or do you have some festivals coming or…?
Yeah, I swore to myself after the last tour I planned myself, that I wouldn’t do it again…
Yeah.
But, the next show we have is in Bratislava, where we’re playing with Uada. It’s gonna be in Pink Whale, so thanks to everyone who donated to that fundraiser, I did it myself as well.
Yeah, me too..
So that went super quick. Happy to see that.
Yeah.
Otherwise, I have made the longest tour yet. I have booked almost everything myself. I got a bit help from some of the other bands, it‘s gonna start the 13th of September and it‘s gonna start in Graz in Austria, then we’re going to Ljublana in Slovenia, Nurnberg, Leipzig, Mainz, Hannover, Oberhausen, Kortrijk in Belgium, Metz in France, and Strasbourg in France, Hamburg , Aarhus in Denmark, Copenhagen, Berlin and then Prague.
Fuckin hell.
But we have some days off. I remember I asked my guys in the band last year, on the way home about what could have been better and they almost in unison said „days off“, so I was like OK. But this time I have also extended a bit more. I wanted to pick some support bands that could go along with us on the tour. So from Graz to Mainz we are gonna bring the Slovak urban black metal project Solipsism and then we’re gonna have the day off, gonna send them home from Frankfurt. And then we’re gonna drive to a small town called Goslar, where there is a German band called Anglanz, who we played with last year, by coincidence, in Göttingen, in Germany. And they‘re gonna join us for Hannover and on till Hamburg. So they’re going with us through Belgium and France as well and then they’re gonna go home. We’re gonna have the day off, and I’m gonna pick up the Danish band called Kold, it means cold, and then they’re gonna join us for Aarhus, not Copenhagen, because they are playing at the same venue week after, but they’re gonna join us for Berlin and Prague as well, and then we’re gonna send them home, and then we should be done. So this work has taken almost a year of planning, a lot of efforts are put into it. This time I hope I’m meaning what I’m saying, that I’m not doing this shit again.
*both laughing*
I can understand what you went through to organize this and hats off to you because a lot of fans have this illusion, that actually all these tours for the underground bands are organized by some entity or probably the club owners and this is really wrong. I mean, they don’t see the work behind that and I was talking about this thing with one guy and he was like „this is so great to see Udånde on this big tour. This is a huge success story. How were they invited to all of those clubs?“ And I was like „No, they weren’t invited. What a coincidence would that must have been to be invited in those clubs so consecutively?“
Just for the record, we were actually invited to Graz and Mainz.
Oh okay, great, sorry haha.
Yeah, but it was a specific case though.
It’s really hard work. And yeah, even the big bands have their own tour managers and agencies, right? Someone has to do the work. And it’s the least you can do as a fan to go support them on the show. And this is like the really big problem in Slovakia nowadays that people are not going to shows that much and well, I’m sometimes helping with the bands here in Banská Bystrica and there was this Icelandic slam death playing on a Thursday and…
There’s slam bands too? I thought it was all black metal there…
*both laughing*
And I was like, OK, well, what are you gonna do? I mean, yeah, they are on tour and they wanted to play somewhere along the way, so yes, let’s make it happen. And there were like 15 people there and yes that’s not much. But I mean it’s a Thursday in an 80,000 people city… Those guys were perfect, they were really, really good. They were really nice and they really enjoyed everyone who came there. And yes, probably those attendees didn’t understand that this is really organized by themselves and they are supporting them directly by going to those shows because they probably had this door deal in this small venue and, you know, whatever, every euro that came towards them really helped them, I can imagine.
This kind of pretext is also with people in general, they always have these weirdly high expectations of how they think the whole industry works. Several coworkers of mine were like, „I listened to your music, it’s good, how come you don’t do it for a living?“ Ooooh.
Hahaha, yeah. Ohh yeah.
But on the other hand, I don’t want to do it for a living. Because if I did it for a living, I would never be home. I would have to be on tour the whole time, I would be pressured to make new music and all these things. No, I don’t want to do that. It’s a really expensive hobby of mine, that’s what it is.
Yeah, it is. It really is. I was really surprised to hear in a recent interview with Gaerea that they actually started to live from it. And I was like „OK, that’s nice. Nice to hear.“ I didn’t know, but yes… they are this rising star, this shining star of black metal right now they are still growing bigger every year. And I was like „OK, they are big, but I didn’t know that they are THIS big.“ And I can understand this now because he went further in the interview to say that „yes, well, we live from it now, but it means we are 200 days out of a year on the road playing shows and then we come back to record new stuff. And then we go back on the road. So we are never home.“
They’re basically nomads, you know.
Yeah, that‘s absolutely correct. They live in a tour bus and they are actually doing a pre production for the new stuff in tour bus, because they don’t have time to do that home. So their lives are so scheduled to be always somewhere… I mean, being a rock star is probably a dream of a lot of people. But I don’t know… it’s not as sweet as it sounds.
And also I hear this a lot in the metal community as well, that when you have smaller bands, some of them are really enthusiastic which all due respect to that, having that drive… Most of these people are dreaming of playing big stages at Wacken and supporting Rammstein, and I don’t know all these things and this is gonna sound a bit arrogant as well, but these people who show up for these big events, these are people who most likely know you because you were in some advertising at some point. You were in some magazine or some promotion company or label with a buttload of money, blew you up, your name and did this and this and this… and the thing is I kind of… well I’ve not been playing that big stages, but I’ve been playing bigger stages and smaller stages, I’ve been playing shows where the plane tickets and hotels were paid and all the rock star lifestyle was almost there. But to be honest, going for a punk squad in Germany where they took out a whole evening on a weekday like a stupid Monday or something like that, just to make sure that we are comfortable like making the beds for us, putting up gears and everything and even saying that you are getting 100% of the door deals and they don’t want any income? And then they make food for us and everything. This is just so much nicer than going for big festivals where everything is scheduled, because you can really feel the audience turning up there and the people who are arranging it, they’re doing it out of pure passion. And it’s just so nice to see. And then I don’t care if there are 100 people or they’re 50. Those people who came here took time out of their busy schedule and whatnot to come see whatever we did to have an experience, you know, and I truly appreciate that. I could go on and really try to push more shows but I’m happy that they’re coming and buying something from us. They don’t know how much it actually means to us. I almost used a year for planning this tour, so the fact that some people are coming there, it means the world to me, you know.
Yeah, I can understand that, yes. OK, so one last question: if you could pick whatever band or project still existent, or split up, that you would like to go most on a tour with, who would it be?
*prolonged pause*
…that’s a really good question. Hmm. I don’t know… because the thing is, it’s a deeper question than you would think. It’s also raising another question. Which is, would you like to meet your idols? And most of the time – no, you wouldn‘t. Then I want to be the Danish Slovakian that doesn’t speak the language. I want to live in eternal bliss and ignorance, you know.
*both laughing*
Because sometimes you can get really disappointed.
Yeah.
Let me put it this way: some years ago, when I still lived in Denmark and played in another band. We got offered to play support for some real black metal legends from the USA in Copenhagen, which we did, and I was so excited because that was the band that got me into black metal. They were what really started the whole thing for me.
OK, yeah.
And we got there, we already knew the venue and we were the first ones there and there was only one backstage room. The other band arrived into the room, they said hello and left. Suddenly their manager came in, super angry, kicked us out because they had to perform their nature ritual or whatnot, so we were left in the hallway. The nice cold hallway. And that illusion of excitement was just gone.
Oooh, yeah…
Because suddenly there was this big star. And I know that American bands have a whole different point of view about main acts and support bands and how they’ve been treated and so on, but in Europe it’s different. You have more respect towards each other, I would say. But this was totally like a shattered illusion for me. So do you really want to meet them? But at this point I would say what could be a really good match for Udånde would be, as you already talked about, Gaerea. Otherwise, I don’t know… I would prefer to tour with some people I’ve been on tour before. I’m taking a big risk with the Danish band Kold. I‘ve never met them, but they seem like very nice guys. I like their music and we’re with the same label. And also as I mentioned, with Solipsism, we’ve met, we played together… So these things are really important for me. When I’m organizing the tour and being the tour manager, I really don’t want people who are acting high and mighty and „I’m a rock star and I want 20 bottles of Jack in the backstage!“ No, no, no, no, no.
Haha, yeah.
I don’t have that kind of patience.
